Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline
Author Message
gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !
*****

Posts: 1,937
Likes Given: 500
Likes Received: 1,035 in 654 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #1
Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline
Clive bates has posed this interesting question

http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2838

And is looking for responses. I'm going to sit down with a beer later to try and answer the questions more fully but please do answer yourselves both here and on clives blog.
06-02-2015 04:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like gords1001's post:
Galaxyrider (02-06-2015), Robjenko (02-06-2015), tuftony352 (08-19-2015)
Spasmod Offline
Administrator
********
Administrators

Posts: 5,591
Likes Given: 8,449
Likes Received: 5,689 in 2,939 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 102
Post: #2
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline [work in progress]
Scaremongering from prominent media is the main culprit. It's easy for us because we know it's all crap and we've been involved with vaping long enough to know the truth.

The vast majority of new prospective vapers have literally no clue how it works, what are the safety guidelines, what are the health implicatations versus smoking or even what a cigalike or an ego is. 

They think about it for a while, they look around the internet, become overwhelmed with endless advertising and too much choice, they stumble upon some (what should be) criminal propaganda in the daily fail while they sit there rolling a tobacco cigarette thinking themselves lucky they didn't just waste a ton of money on something that's going to kill them faster than the rollup they're about to smoke.

Next day at work when asked what they bought and should we give it a go they're told about the article they read in the daily fail that tells them to keep smoking instead.. since afterall it's safer right?
06-02-2015 04:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Spasmod's post:
gords1001 (02-06-2015), JohnnyMac (02-11-2015), Robjenko (02-06-2015)
Robjenko Online
Squonk and toodle Club Member
******
Super Moderators

Posts: 5,418
Likes Given: 2,263
Likes Received: 7,852 in 3,709 posts
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 120
Post: #3
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline [work in progress]
Just had a quick look at itScratch_one-s_head I've saved it to my favourites because you will need a beer and a full tank of juice. I promise you this gords1001 I will be reading it fully and reporting back Good

Vaping Saves Lives. To vape is to advocate..
06-02-2015 05:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Don Online
Squonk and Toodle Club Member
*******
Senior Staff

Posts: 13,710
Likes Given: 11,887
Likes Received: 18,759 in 9,034 posts
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 216
Post: #4
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline [work in progress]
I'd just add that Clive Bates is well worth reading. Especially given his background as someone at the top of Action on Smoking and Health, now another of those fake charities pretending to do Public Health. 

Clive Bates and the integrity to leave them - and probably a very good salary.

TVF tested battery info to be found here

http://www.preventsuicideapp.com

[Image: 24291313393_16615b20b2_m.jpg]
06-02-2015 05:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Michael Offline
TVF Veteran
*****

Posts: 6,756
Likes Given: 17,354
Likes Received: 7,439 in 3,870 posts
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 60
Post: #5
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline [work in progress]
I haven't read the whole page yet, but I have an idea for a contributing factor. He says that e-cig use has also declined among people who recently quit smoking. Perhaps people are using e-cigs to quit, and then quitting e-cigs. I have a couple of friends here in the states who were very involved in e-cig communities, had nice gear, all that kind of thing, and after a while just decided they didn't need to vape anymore and sold all their gear. It's hard for me to imagine, since I'm the kind of person who vapes as a hobby, but for some people it's just a tool to quit smoking and once they've accomplished that goal, there's no reason to keep vaping.
06-02-2015 07:10 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !
*****

Posts: 1,937
Likes Given: 500
Likes Received: 1,035 in 654 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #6
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline [work in progress]
All good answer's.

I feel that a combination of antz propaganda and equipment related issues are to blame.


In the media we have :-

1. Ecig causes fire ad infinitum
2. Ecig causes cancer
3. Ecig worse than smoking


Every single one of these stories can be debunked or explained by human negligence.

And mostly its reported from a press release that massively contradicts the actual findings of the study. Draws unsupportable conclusions from the data collected or fails to inform people of the differences in chargers and why it is so important.

Then you have this slew of new vendors selling crap starter kits instead of saying "this is a touch more expensive than some but here's why". Too many are jumping on the bandwagon to make a quick buck rather than being vapers themselves. Way to endorse your products.

So people are getting bum advice from uninterested parties. Outright lies and propaganda designed to maintain tobacco sales from the media and online advice is confusing to say the least.

Couple all this with people who should be tried for crimes against humanity getting the media limelight and we have an uphill struggle.

On the equipment front the industry is partly to blame.

510 charging is an abortion that should never have been entertained, if nothing else I hope regulations eliminate that entirely as its too open to failure.

Whats needed is micro usb into onboard charging circuit that regulates to li ion/li po charging protocols.

There has also been, up until recently an absence of off the shelf devices that are truly plug and play and give the user a real incentive to switch.

It doesn't need to replicate smoking, it needs to improve on smoking - the user needs to be able to tailor their experience to suit them.

I feel we're now on the cusp of that but there are a couple of issues. With tanks like the sub tank family and aspire gear we have afc/flavour/vapour production. Those are all important but costly for initial outlay. You are also better with a variable output battery. Again costly.

The vaping motto has always been back ups for back ups. No newbie gets this. They dont get battery capacity/tank capacity/size are a two out of three equation. If you want a tank and battery to last a day, and some decent power, you want a minimum 15watt device with a 7amp switch, 2600mah and a 3ml minimum tank. So essentially an mvp 20watt with a nautilus mini. Thats a £50 investment, and people miss that if they smoke 20/day they're spending over fifty quid/week.

Its a big investment for an experiment. But it would save them cash in the long run due to equipment failures/upgrades/disappointing experience. All those hurdles can also lead to giving up rather than full switch.

These are all things we have all experienced, in mine, spasmods, johnnymacs and Don's cases these experiences are all documented on this very forum. Our whole first years trials and tribulations are here for all to read if they wish.


These equipment issues though, are all excuses. The downturn lines up smack on with the start of a massive, financed, PR controlled campaign of negative propaganda. There's been a relentless slew of bullshit studies followed by click bait "accidents" and its orchestrated worldwide. That fact is undeniable.

We've had studies from the pharmaceutical industries politcal arm (WHO/public health England/ucsf). Studies financed by ambulance chasers looking to get a tobacco products master settlement style agreement for vaping. Politicians/public health tax troughers looking to protect their own corrupt lifestyles based on commiting mass genocide through lucrative consumer products.

All of these various con artists stand to lose a lot of cash, and vaping is the potential weapon of their destruction.

They dont want to allow that, they know they've been on shaky ground for decades, as soon as the three researchers were nailed in the states for the missrepresentation of second hand smoke studies, they were in trouble. Vaping was a blindside hit though. There was no industry, no single target other than massive factories in China. And BMW can tell you how well lawsuits go in China. Tobacco control really doesn't have that kind of money.

But vaping was cottage industry for a long time, the big innovations in atomiser design, that we're now seeing as viable in clearomiser design were all developed by people dotted around the globe chatting on the Internet. It sneaked up on tobacco control before suddenly BOOM it was everywhere.

The build up of the propaganda was also timed to get a good body of "evidence" built up in time for new year.

Everyone makes new years resolutions. Giving up smoking is a big one. Given the improvements in device quality, the massive influx of decent juice venders, the proliferation of successful switchers, new year could have been the final tipping point. The point of no return. It would have been the start of the end game tobacco control is always bleating about.

But not on their terms. Not from their paymasters. It actually nailed their paymasters in the pocket too.

They've gone too far though. They've shot their bolt.

There are positive noises in a few places, and if some of the people I spoke too whilst at work are anything to go by, the general public smells it too. That smell of ripe bullshit is strong.
06-02-2015 08:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 5 users Like gords1001's post:
JohnnyMac (02-11-2015), Michael (02-07-2015), Real Extracts Seattle (08-19-2015), Robjenko (02-07-2015), tuftony352 (08-19-2015)
gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !
*****

Posts: 1,937
Likes Given: 500
Likes Received: 1,035 in 654 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #7
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline
And on the back of that rant.
http://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/news/v...ience.html

This backs up many of my claims with links and further reading. Smile
06-02-2015 09:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes gords1001's post:
JohnnyMac (02-11-2015)
Don Online
Squonk and Toodle Club Member
*******
Senior Staff

Posts: 13,710
Likes Given: 11,887
Likes Received: 18,759 in 9,034 posts
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 216
Post: #8
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline
Yo Graham. You've said it way better than I could have.

Good on you!!!!!!!!

There is this thing called "evidence-based policy making" 

But stop me on that rant about policy-based evidence-making.

"Evidence-based" means submitting to those who get to say what "evidence" actually is....

don't buy "The Man's lies.

And look up the history of what The Man has done.....

I spend my days with the smackheads. I know how they got there. I understand how the smack hits a vein..

Round here it's called gear.

Those guys and us - there's no difference from the ANTZ.

Your choice.

Your consequences...

TVF tested battery info to be found here

http://www.preventsuicideapp.com

[Image: 24291313393_16615b20b2_m.jpg]
06-02-2015 09:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like Don's post:
Galaxyrider (02-06-2015), gords1001 (02-06-2015), JohnnyMac (02-11-2015), Robjenko (02-07-2015)
Whiskey Offline
Member
*****

Posts: 2,156
Likes Given: 2,590
Likes Received: 2,398 in 1,182 posts
Joined: May 2014
Reputation: 8
Post: #9
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline
.......................
06-02-2015 09:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Galaxyrider Offline
Senior Member
****
FreeCycle

Posts: 431
Likes Given: 265
Likes Received: 363 in 200 posts
Joined: May 2014
Reputation: 3
Post: #10
RE: Why has vaping uptake suffered a steep decline
(06-02-2015 04:49 PM)gords1001 Wrote:  Clive bates has posed this interesting question

http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2838

And is looking for responses. I'm going to sit down with a beer later to try and answer the questions more fully but please do answer yourselves both here and on clives blog.
Not being a resident of the UK, I doubt that my input would be of much (if any) use to them. Just from glancing over that document, I think that they are right, the first, and second generation devices aren't doing the trick, and the third generation devices are to fiddly for most that arent into this as a hobby. THen, you have those that are into this as a "fad" and have no intention of being convicted about anything.
People in general these days seem to lack conviction on anything that requires an effort on their part, they are wishy washy politically, they say they believe in God, but they wont go to church, its easier to have an e cig for show, and smoke the stinkies at home.
I am convinced, and convicted, I know it works! I've been riding this train for 300+ days, Im nicotine free, I feel better, I breath easier, while most of my converts at work have gone back to tobacco. This is going to be a "fad" for a while, until it gets more common place. The fence straddlers, will see that those convicted ones are so much healthier. They will feel that tug of their own dependency, and they will have to make a choice.. for better or worse. As educated,  and convicted vapors, we need to remain steady and continue to try to convert those that are smokers. There are those that will find themselves in my shoes a year ago.. coughing and wheezing breathlessly until they decide that maby those people with the funny smoking machines might have just had the right idea all along. Be an example vaper.. Never assume its OK to vape someplace. extend the same courtesy to the public that you would with a cigarette, by not vaping close to them but be ready (like a Christian) to wittness to them about your positive results. That will be our most effective tactic. Things will be more realistic once the "fad" era of vaping is over.

(06-02-2015 09:10 PM)Don Wrote:  Yo Graham. You've said it way better than I could have.

Good on you!!!!!!!!

There is this thing called "evidence-based policy making" 

But stop me on that rant about policy-based evidence-making.

"Evidence-based" means submitting to those who get to say what "evidence" actually is....

don't buy "The Man's lies.

And look up the history of what The Man has done.....

I spend my days with the smackheads. I know how they got there. I understand how the smack hits a vein..

Round here it's called gear.

Those guys and us - there's no difference from the ANTZ.

Your choice.

Your consequences...
Very well said Don, and its the ugly truth too!

Onward.. through the Fog!
[Image: quit-smoking-banner.php?key=16216]
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2015 10:43 PM by Galaxyrider.)
06-02-2015 10:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like Galaxyrider's post:
gords1001 (02-06-2015), Michael (02-07-2015), tuftony352 (08-19-2015)
Post Reply