Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
Author Message
gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !
*****

Posts: 1,937
Likes Given: 500
Likes Received: 1,035 in 654 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #1
One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
So, I'm one year into being smoke free. In a year, it would appear, talking to some other vapers, that I have covered quite a bit of ground, this article has also been on my mind since hearing about thr vapeblast incident,  and following various threads on various forums and Facebook groups. This will get quite tech heavy, so I apologise in advance, i will try l, to the best of my ability, to explain my rational behind my thoughts.


This thread will likely take a while to complete, and any questions may gp unanswered until i have completed it, please bare with me, I'm starting this at work and some of the photos still need to be taken.



So, I got into vaping through my friendship with a few of the other stalwarts,  moderators and owners of the forum, we all met through budget light forum, a forum dedicated to torches of all kinds.

This meant that my journey into vaping and my understanding of the equipment comes from a different slant than most. I already had and understood lithium ion cells and chargers, infact this knowledge kept me away from both cigalikes and ego style set ups, to this day, I trust neither the cells or the chargers.

My first device was a vamo in black chrome with a ce4 clearomiser. Whilst I knew as soon as I used it that it was not my final set up, it was enough to persevere with till I could find what was. That first set up ended smoking for me.

[Image: 20130923_003436_zpsovvx18xt.jpg]

As you can see, I actually started with two set ups lol.


My main attraction of the vamo was the cost and the ability to use the trusted cells and chargers I already had, all of my vaping journey can be found in the forum so I wont dwell too long on it here, its all available with a little time and forum searching.

I rapidly progressed through clearomisers with one thing in mind, none of them available had enough airflow, by a long shot.

I wasn't aware of the terminology at the time, but have since realised, I always lung hit my roll ups. That is why I never liked boxed cigs. For vaping to satisfy me, I needed to be able to lung hit what I was using.


The need to research soon led me to another forum and to spending hours watching todds reviews on you tube.  It also led me to where I am today - mechs and drippers and my friendship with wayne and his family at The Little Puffer in wigan.

Waynes influence definitely advanced my learning process and my determination to figure things out, vaping is actually built on many very simple basic processes and engineering principles, it really isn't hard.


[Image: Screenshot_2014-09-23-09-17-25_zps5049ockh.png]


[Image: Screenshot_2014-09-23-09-16-40_zpsbbkzaoyr.png]


In electrical terms,those sketches show an ecig both in its off and on state.  Yes you can get variable voltage, variable wattage, mechs, boxes and ornate custom designs. But electrically, that is whats happening,  a cell or battery (depending on how many cells you use, yes, I am that pedantic) a resistor and a switch. Everything else is frippery to suit the individual vaper.



So, in order to use rebuildable atomisers and mech mods safely, it is important that you know, can measure and cam confirm a few things.

YOU MUST KNOW AND YOU SHOULD STICK TO THE CONTINUOUS DISCHARGE LIMIT OF YOUR CELLS

That bit is important, but there's another reason that my thinking has got too, I'll expand on that in the next section.

You also need to know your atomiser resistance.  There are numerous ways of testing,  but you can do it with a reasonable accuracy using a simple multimeter.

First measure your lead resistance.

[Image: 20140923_095320_zpshsba61qr.jpg]

My leads are getting pretty fucked so they have high resistance.

Next measure from the centre pin to one of the outer pins.

[Image: 20140923_095402_zpsogw6yrv4.jpg]

Subtract the lead resistance from the resistance measured on the atty and you have the atomiser resistance.

So .8ohm - .6ohm = .2ohm.

I happen to know that one of the cheap atomiser ohmmeters measures that build at .32ohm. And that the meter display was fluctuating whilst I tried to take the photo. I feel the build is .3ohm which is well within the limits of my cells.

So, you get your ohms law calculator and stick your parameters in and thats what your vaping at, right?

[Image: Screenshot_2014-09-23-10-11-32_zpshqhfn6xb.png]


Well. For safe vaping. Yes, that is correct. In reality,  no, its not correct at all. All cells suffer voltage sag under load. The greater the load, the more they sag. You can forget about "copper hits harder"  and all that bollocks too.  The difference between copper and stainless at 1ohm is a millionth of a watt. Almost unmeasurable,  and certainly undetectable to a vaper. There are other factors.

Anyway, what you need to establish, is your voltage sag. To do that is easy with your trusty meter.

First measure cell voltage.

[Image: 20140923_095132_zpspbvvekiu.jpg]

Then you touch the pins to the atomiser centre post and one side post and fire the mod (get an assistant if necessary).

[Image: 20140923_095237_zps4hpml1hd.jpg]

So I start at 4.016v. Under load it is 3.486v, so at .3ohm, my cell sags half a volt. And what I'm actually vaping at is this.

[Image: Screenshot_2014-09-23-10-20-17_zps5bhupu93.png]

Quite a difference.  And it gets worse, the lower you coil, most vapers dont realise that, but I was finding I was only getting 80watts out of a .09ohm build, cell sag took care of the other 113watts I should have been getting.

All of this has got me quite dejected, as far as I am concerned,  safely getting much more than 90watts from a single cell mech with currently available cells is in my opinion, impossible. It also lead me to start looking at mod use and in particular venting, in more detail. Its lead me to this practice.

[Image: 20140923_095149_zps8hyxlwx2.jpg]

Yes, that cell is "upside down". But does it matter? Coils are not polarised, and mods don't care at all, there is no difference which way around your cell goes, as an electrical circuit.

However. Cells ONLY vent one way. They vent from the cell vents, which on all li ion cells are on the positive end.






I chose an icr cell as it is a bit more graphic, but all the round cells we use in mods vent from the positive end. Cells also swell when they heat up. In our close tolerance tubes, that swelling could cut off the cells vents from the mods vents. The result is vape blast.


Now, not all mods can be used in this way. And its down to the vaper to determine if they can be or not, if they cannot determine that, then they should not be using mechanical mods until their understanding has been improved.


So where does this leave us? Well for me, I am a relatively happy vaper. I do know I can get even more performance if I wish, though not through the use on single cell mechs. There are other ways of upping your wattage, its something for people to learn about for themselves, rather than for someone to just drop in their laps.


There is a lot of talj about regulated mods being "safer" personally, I'm unconvinced. They could be safer in knowledgeable experienced hands, but the number of hana clones that were failing off the bat, along with the clouper t5 update debacle, leave me feeling that unless you really understand your stuff, your taking a risk.

The 100watt mods coming out use two cells in series. Which is another bad idea. Most users dont understand and dont have the equipment to balance their cells, and some of the mods specs suggest they are dangerously reliant on very heavy input current forvreally crap output wattage, the fasttech gi2 springs to mind. There are already quite a few 20amp dc-dc converter mods out in America,  but again, I fear users lack of knowledge is the most dangerous factor there.


At some point vapers will have to understand that for more output, they need to either learn how to use their lower output regulated mods properly, by boosting the voltage on high resistance coils rather than hamstringing low resistance current hungry builds,  or by buyinging charger and cell technology designed for high wattage demand applications. Its out there, but like everything, it needs research and investment by the end user.

Thankyou for reading.

Graham.
23-09-2014 08:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 6 users Like gords1001's post:
BOB (10-07-2014), cheefkeef (09-23-2014), Don (09-23-2014), Michael (09-23-2014), Spasmod (09-23-2014), vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
Michael Offline
TVF Veteran
*****

Posts: 6,756
Likes Given: 17,354
Likes Received: 7,439 in 3,870 posts
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 60
Post: #2
RE: [work in progress] One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
It's really cool to hear stories / "testimonials" from other vapers. It's interesting to see the differences and similarities between our stories. Example, I never lung hit before about two weeks ago, even with cigarettes/cigars/pipes I would just fill up my mouth and then inhale it all at once, so for me, drippers with extreme airflow was a really weird concept that took some getting used to. Oddly enough, it's now pretty much taken over my vaping experience, and I've gotten to the point where I even drip and drive (NOT a good idea, btw). Also cool to hear from someone with a different background before vaping. I personally don't understand 90% of what I'm doing with my rebuildables and batteries and all that stuff, so I'm glad I have you guys to learn from. Smile

Thanks for sharing mate! Can't wait to see where this goes.
23-09-2014 08:20 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Michael's post:
gords1001 (09-23-2014), vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !
*****

Posts: 1,937
Likes Given: 500
Likes Received: 1,035 in 654 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #3
RE: [work in progress] One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
I'll come back. I need to work.
23-09-2014 08:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes gords1001's post:
vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
Don Online
Squonk and Toodle Club Member
*******
Senior Staff

Posts: 13,767
Likes Given: 11,932
Likes Received: 18,860 in 9,081 posts
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 218
Post: #4
RE: [work in progress] One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
(23-09-2014 08:30 AM)gords1001 Wrote:  I need to work.

Tried that once. Hated it!
Tongue

TVF tested battery info to be found here

http://www.preventsuicideapp.com

[Image: 24291313393_16615b20b2_m.jpg]
23-09-2014 08:31 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Don's post:
gords1001 (09-23-2014), vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
Michael Offline
TVF Veteran
*****

Posts: 6,756
Likes Given: 17,354
Likes Received: 7,439 in 3,870 posts
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 60
Post: #5
RE: [work in progress] One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
(23-09-2014 08:31 AM)Don Wrote:  
(23-09-2014 08:30 AM)gords1001 Wrote:  I need to work.

Tried that once. Hated it!
Tongue
I second that. When you work in churches like I do, there's not a lot of room for vaping on the job. Wink

lol honestly I love my job except for that one point. No vaping allowed Sad
23-09-2014 09:33 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Michael's post:
vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !
*****

Posts: 1,937
Likes Given: 500
Likes Received: 1,035 in 654 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #6
RE: One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
Its finished bar editing spelling Smile
23-09-2014 10:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like gords1001's post:
Don (09-23-2014), Michael (09-23-2014), Spasmod (09-23-2014), vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
Spasmod Offline
Administrator
********
Administrators

Posts: 5,597
Likes Given: 8,463
Likes Received: 5,705 in 2,945 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 102
Post: #7
RE: One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
Thanks Graham, that's a wonderful insight into your vaping journey and with some very valid and important safety advice along the way. You should do a follow up to say where you're at right now, what you intend to change moving forward and where your expectations lay in the next 12 months looking ahead Tongue Drinks
23-09-2014 11:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Spasmod's post:
gords1001 (09-23-2014), vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !
*****

Posts: 1,937
Likes Given: 500
Likes Received: 1,035 in 654 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #8
RE: One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
I'll ponder on that and report back spasmod.

This is all open for debate though, I'm as interested in other peoples opinions on my ramblings as anything. Smile
23-09-2014 11:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes gords1001's post:
vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
cheefkeef Offline
Member
***

Posts: 81
Likes Given: 4
Likes Received: 15 in 10 posts
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 0
Post: #9
RE: One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
Great post Graham. You really do know your stuff, that i'm sure of. From posts i've seen on the facebook groups, i'll be following your exploits very closely Smile I've been vaping over 18 months and feel like i know nothing! I don't really have the time to sit down and study these things as much as i'd like to. Being married and with a disabled wife to look after, it's difficult to find time to devote to what i've found to be the only 'hobby' that i've ever had such a passion for, and that disturbs me greatly... i want to learn and for that i need someone to teach me Wink
23-09-2014 11:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like cheefkeef's post:
gords1001 (09-23-2014), vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !
*****

Posts: 1,937
Likes Given: 500
Likes Received: 1,035 in 654 posts
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 9
Post: #10
RE: One year in. Some thoughts on vaping.
I'm good at bullshitting keef Smile

As I say, some of this has been on my mind for a bit and there's a lot more to add yet.
23-09-2014 12:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes gords1001's post:
vapejuiceuk (06-11-2016)
Post Reply