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In an ideal world
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gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !

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Post: #1
In an ideal world
We've all seen the bum reports and studies, dry hit studies and researchers being perplexed when vapers read them and laugh at the results.

Well, think about this, most of these studies are "peer reviewed" the issue is that one large group of peers in the field of e-cigarettes is completely ignored, its foolish, but they are.

Who are these overlooked peers? Well basically....US!

Whilst we may not have a doctorate or university qualification in medicine, what we do have is real time successful experience in the actual use of ecigs, something many of these researchers completely lack, hence the bum studies.

We might not be able to poison mice, but we can effectively set up and test any vaping configuration within a couple of months of making the switch, which is where my thoughts are heading.

Why should we accept crap studies from someone who cannot even properly use a clearomiser and vv battery, never mind grasp the difference between that clearomiser and say an RDA on a mech? It would be like me, a ham fisted hammer wielding engineer attempting a heart transplant then declaring its an unsafe practice when my victim died.

So here's my ideal world, my vaping study utopia.

Researchers who wish to study should need to pass appropriate qualifications, qualifications that to any extent, any vaper finds they need to pass in order to sagely and successfully use the devices, the reward for the vaper is generally a successful exit route from combustion.


There is an obvious need to be able to match an atomiser to an appropriate power source. Its not complicated - kids learn the relevant laws at school.

Ohms law.

Whether you use a clearo on an ego or an rda on a mech or a tank on variable wattage device, you still need to understand enough about ohms law to determine if your set up is working correctly and safely within the supply limits of your chosen power supply.

Coiling and Wicking :-

We want the best of the best of our peers doing this research. Given that many vapers successfully coil and wick devices in their living room, and understand the merits, limitations and nuances of the various devices, it's not unfair to expect researchers to be able to do the same, and prove that they can safely set up whichever atomiser choice on any potential power supply.

Long and short, I'm saying the should be able to coil and wick an rda, rta and genesis atomiser, they should be able to pick them out from a manufacturers catalogue, and they should know the effects of resistive wire thickness, coil diameter and spacing, wick material choice, requirements of using each type of wick, the nuances of using each type of atomiser (genesis/kayfun tilt, lung hit vs mouth to lung etc) and they should be able to fit the atomiser to each type of power supply or explain why an atomiser cannot safely be used (flush/springloaded pin on hybrid etc).

They should be able to measure coil voltage and resistance, and preferably current too, and use these measurements to demonstrate what is happening in thr circuit and why some builds might not be a good idea (.2ohm on an 18350 for example)

They should be able to tell us about dry hits and what is causing them in the various atomisers. Safe cell charging and discharging practice, venting configurations and the simple circuit that is a mod.

They should be able to mix up a usable eliquid in whichever pg/vg/nic level/flavour is required, and explain what effect varying each of those parameters has on both the vaping experience and its application in each type of atomiser.

They should be at least as good at all this as most vapers are because, they intend to use these studies to prove policy that may be used against us. And if they truly did understand all this, they might actually contribute meaningful studies that further understanding and help make vaping even safer than it already is.

Its not a lot to ask, we're talking a few weeks intensive study, study that they actually get paid to do, and without that knowledge, i would contend that many of these studies are impossible to peer review.
14-03-2015 03:58 PM
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18sixfifty Offline
too big for his britches

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Post: #2
RE: In an ideal world
I would think that would be the least they could do. How it's currently done reminds me a lot of  our current batch of "Journalists" in the MSM. Ever notice how they are instantly an expert on any given crisis? Let's say a new civil war breaks out in some backwater nation; they instantly know who the good guys are an who the bad guys are, they "know" all about the situation and what all the players are up to and all the motivations etc etc etc. Good trick considering they don't even speak the language. Good trick considering they have never been to that nation in their life, let alone interviewed anyone except the "good guys".

These tossers pass themselves off as experts in the same way that the people who do the e-cig studies do. They don't have a fucking clue!! Yet they are accepted as experts. They don't speak the "language", they don't go to the homes and interview the people who are actually in the fight. Same damn thing when you think about it.

Our politicians are the same damn way! They get a briefing that they only half assed listen to, they ask a bunch of people which way the political winds are blowing and pay ten times more attention to how an issue "polls" and what they means for public opinion. They weigh that against how it will effect fund raising, etc etc. Rarely do they take the time to listen to the experts let alone become one. 

Take any given topic and I can become a "google" expert at the level of a politician, reporter or one of the e-cig scientists in about five minutes. But to be a successful politician, reporter or "scientist I would not only need to have little or no morals I would need to be an expert at "politics" itself because that is all it's about anymore!

When Science become synonymous with Politics can it ever actually be Scientific?

If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?
14-03-2015 06:21 PM
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gords1001 Offline
Sir Gords - Slayer of Joose !

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Post: #3
RE: In an ideal world
Thats exactly it 18sixfifty. There are experts out there, they talk to vapers all the time. Why? Because they persue knowledge, not political hay, so the first thought is to find out what others know then build off that. I'd wager most of those experts could pass most of the above if not all - they showed an interst, which is all I'm asking, it saves publishing stupid shit that one scientist stated, shouldn't have even been published. It's not only the vape knowledge, there's serious flaws in the actual execution of the studies, that we miss as laymen but experts in science look at and raise similar questions that we do about the equipment.

Its a piss poor state of affairs.
14-03-2015 10:22 PM
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Michael Offline
Oh, where have I gone off to...

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Post: #4
RE: In an ideal world
This is an issue that's largely ignored, and not just in vaping. Here's an example: a few days ago, a picture of a semi truck was posted on local news sites, and the semi was halfway across the grassy median in the middle of the interstate with the caption "Tractor Trailer Attempts U-Turn Across I-75 Median." Of course, everyone is laughing at how stupid the driver must have been to try to turn around illegally across a grassy median with a big dip in the middle, and the trailer had broken due to the strain as it dipped down and tried to get back up the hill on the other side. But then yesterday, the news came out that the semi driver had not actually attempted a U-Turn, but had instead swerved into the median to avoid hitting the stopped traffic on the other side of a hill, because there had been another wreck further up and he couldn't see the stopped cars. So why did the news report that he had done something as stupid as attempting a U-Turn across the median? 

Because it's a bigger story than a semi driver potentially saving people's lives by risking his own to get out of the way. 

It just pisses me off that the first story was reported before anyone knew the facts. A driver just two cars ahead saw the whole thing happen in his rear view mirror, so obviously the news crew didn't even ask anyone around what had happened. 

I know that was a long tangent, but it's not that different from what happens in vaping news every day. Someone reports on something they know nothing about, and the story makes the general public think the worst when in actuality, the true story is something different entirely. News reports that vaping is dangerous, when in actuality the studies show that vaping is safe when done properly. 

Some days I really just want to scream. 
15-03-2015 01:14 AM
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Robjenko Offline
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Post: #5
RE: In an ideal world
Just to cheers you up I've added some good stories about vaping to the news page Good

Vaping Saves Lives. To vape is to advocate..
15-03-2015 01:35 PM
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