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Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
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Boyblue Offline
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Post: #1
Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
For juices classified as pastry I use doughnut, cake, custard, cream, pecan and the like as flavor builders.  What underlying flavors do you use to build pastry recipes?  

I have no idea what flavors can be used to build fruity flavors?  All I do is combine fruit flavors to come up with unique recipes?  Are there flavors that work the same way (as underlying flavors) for fruity juices?  Even when I have a main flavor (used at its maximum suggested percentage) and a couple accent flavors (used at its minimum percentage) my fruity juices tend to have no distinguishing flavor.  They all tend to taste too much like each other.
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2017 04:17 AM by Boyblue.)
11-10-2017 04:10 AM
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LilFracker Online
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Post: #2
RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
There will be more advice from more knowledgeable DIY'ers but from what I have learned so far is:
Single flavour juice require higher % flavouring than if that same flavour was added to a mix of flavourings. You may use up to 15% or more in single flavour juice and only use 5% or less in a multi flavour mix. So start low and work up and keep notes of changes.
I started with some common fruit flavours such as a couple strawberries and peaches as well as blueberry and then used Catalin cream, sweet cream, Bavarian cream. Once I have a mix I like then I experiment with additional flavours added to existing recipe to see how that worked out.
(This post was last modified: 18-10-2017 10:48 AM by LilFracker.)
11-10-2017 02:38 PM
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Post: #3
RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
There are many, almost infinite ways to build a recipe.

For pastry, I like to add (and follow the lead of masters like FatBoy and Howard Hughes) Pie Crust, Vanilla Cupcake, Milk, Malted Milk, etc to add more bakery and creamy notes.

For fruits, I have found that multiple versions of the same fruit enhance the flavor, i.e. 3 different kinds of Blueberry. Also, if fruits combine well in real life, they probably work well in e-juice as well.

And, there are things like Koolada (that add a subtle cool brightness), and DX Smooth (that takes the edge off) that completely change a recipe with even a tiny amount added. So, you have a lot of experimentation ahead of you. And a lot of concentrates to stock up on!
11-10-2017 02:58 PM
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Howard Hughes (10-16-2017)
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RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
For pastries I tend to add as TW noted, supporting flavours like cupcake, Zeppola, Nonna's Cake and other "cake" flavours. I also add creams like Catalan, Vienna and Bavarian.

For Fruits I almost always add some Dragonfruit. It brings out the fruit flavour(s) without overpowering them....in moderation of course.

Koolada and even a Menthol can be used in very small amounts to add depth and a new element to most fruit vapes...menthol - literally 1-2 drops (0.01-0.02%) for a 20ml sampler adds a nice layer and enhancer to fruit.....

I have been playing with numerous profiles and for fruit have been really enjoying Jackfruit, Lychee and Guava. A small amount isn't really tasted (as it's own flavour) but does wonders to most fruit DiY.

I have also added a sour element to some fruit vapes...actually adds an element to fruit with no sweetness being lost.

The beauty of DiY is that you can be creative and come up with very unique profiles. By the weekend I'll post a few fruit vapes I've been working on.
11-10-2017 07:38 PM
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TinWhisker (10-11-2017)
Don Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
I find citric acid in very low concentration can "brighten" fruit flavours without souring them excessively.

It is also excellent in strong solutions for removing biofilms from metal (such as metal drip tips).

However, do not buy it from any pharmacy you intend to visit again as its most common unofficial use is dissolving street heroin for injection. Here's what I got from a pharmacy I won't be visiting again.

[Image: 36930881504_af73821d3b_b.jpg]

TVF tested battery info to be found here

[Image: 24291313393_16615b20b2_m.jpg]
11-10-2017 07:48 PM
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Fatboy Online
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Post: #6
RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
Don, I need instruction on how to use Citric Acid..... does it come in liquid form and is it used same as nic by volume/weight or is it crystallized grains?
11-10-2017 08:00 PM
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Don Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
Those are 100mg (0.1g) sachets of powder. I'd dissolve one sachet in 10ml of PG (You may need to warm the PG - don't get it hot) and use a drop or two of the result per 10ml.

TVF tested battery info to be found here

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11-10-2017 08:08 PM
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Fatboy (10-12-2017)
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Post: #8
RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
If you use too much, you will know....

Most sour sweets use a mix of citric and malic acids.

TVF tested battery info to be found here

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11-10-2017 08:09 PM
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Boyblue Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
Wow! multiple versions of the same flavor, brilliant.   I'm familiar with dragon fruit and I'll have to order some, but the double or triple fruit solution is a good option.  

At the outset (months ago), I used Citrus punch as a base for fruit recipes and the stuff came out nasty.  I've tested citrus punch by itself recently and it's a really mellow flavor so it couldn't have been the citrus punch.  
16-10-2017 01:24 AM
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Howard Hughes Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Flavor builders - Pastry vs fruity flavors?
I see you're getting some good advice already. Just to add other pastry idea flavors I like to keep around in addition to the the fine suggestions you've already gotten, I would consider Joy, Metaphor, Biscuit, Cookie, Brown Sugar, Rich Cinnamon, Cinnamon Roll, Cinnamon Danish Swirl, Graham Cracker, Maple Syrup, Waffle, French Toast & Cream Cheese Icing, Creamy Sponge Cake, Vanilla Cream & Frosting. I'm sure there are more yet, but it's pretty much all I can think of while here at work lol.

For fruit flavors I do my research & read others' recipes that have been made by several people who are willing to leave comments or reviews & have also been known to just taste a drop on my finger. First time stand alones are usually done at 3 different strengths. Once I figure out the characteristics of a flavor I better understand how to use it. For example, if I want a complete, well-rounded raspberry I'll use something sweet & candy-like, like TFA Raspberry (Sweet) & mix it with something like INW Raspberry (Malina), which is more tart like wild raspberries. It can take quite a while to find flavors that pair well & then more time to get bthe percentages down. As others have advised, good note-keeping is critical. 

First time recipes & other works in progress are made in 10-15 ml batches (with nic) & notes are taken once a week for about 4 weeks, depending on the sample size, so that steeping & any fading of flavors can be recorded. 

Hope some of this can help you out.
16-10-2017 10:25 PM
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