Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Figuring Out SS TC
Author Message
Michael Offline
Oh, where have I gone off to...
*****

Posts: 6,754
Likes Given: 17,341
Likes Received: 7,449 in 3,871 posts
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 60
Post: #1
Figuring Out SS TC
A few weeks ago, I got a fancy-shmancy DNA 200 mod, so of course I've been spending a lot of time trying to figure out all the nifty features on it. One of those features that I've heard about is the DNA 200's advanced TC settings, using eScribe to set a custom TCR and get a great TC vape. Challenge accepted. 

I got some SS wire in the same package with my mod, so I've been playing around with it lately. I've made some fused claptons, and while they vape really well in power mode, I just can't seem to get TC mode working right. I added custom TCRs directly from Steam Engine, but no matter what I do the TC doesn't seem to work. I lock the cold resistance: but when I fire the mod, the resistance jumps around. I set the temperature really low: but it keeps firing until it burns the cotton. I set the temperature higher: but it acts exactly the same as power mode. The temperature doesn't even show up when it's firing, which it's supposed to do. 

So I figure, maybe it's because I'm using fused Claptons. Maybe there's just too much wire in the atty for it to read the fluctuations in resistance that it needs to properly control the temperature. 

So now, I'm installing some basic parallel SS coils into my Dark Horse RDA (which sadly hasn't gotten much use in quite a long time Sad) to see if that helps anything. If it does, awesome. If not, I'll try just plain dual coils and see if that helps. 

So I'm wondering, has anyone else had this kind of problem? Is there some trick to using the DNA 200 properly that I'm just not getting? I know SS isn't as good for TC as titanium or nickel, but I wanted to start with SS since it can also be used safely in power mode and that way I won't expose myself to noxious fumes if I mess up. Now I'm glad I did, because I'm sure I would have been breathing nickel oxides by now if I'd been using that. 

I'll report back whether or not I get things figured out with this. I'm really loving my new mod, but for now it's just a really nice 200W mod and I know the main draw of the DNA chip is the advanced TC so I'd like to tap into that if I can. 
03-08-2016 04:50 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Eggza Offline
Member
***

Posts: 243
Likes Given: 1,117
Likes Received: 193 in 113 posts
Joined: Jul 2016
Reputation: 3
Post: #2
RE: Figuring Out SS TC
Your coils are fully wicked and juiced when you perform your tests? TC won't prevent the cotton from burning if you dry fire, but I don't understand how you're scorching wet cotton with low temperature settings otherwise. I wondered the same thing when you mentioned in the other thread that you'd determined that cotton will burn at 425F, since I vape above that mark quite often without scorching. How much boost wattage are you giving it? Is it dropping out of TC mode? Can you try a simple coil from a single wire and correct, widely used TCR?

With respect to locked resistance and fluctuation, how dramatic are the fluctuations? Can you view and compare the live and cold resistances with the device monitor? Assuming the changes only happen when the coils are hot, I suspect you're looking at the live resistance instead of the cold resistance.

I'm confident you can get it squared away. BTW, some mods actually do better with stainless than other materials.
03-08-2016 05:48 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Michael Offline
Oh, where have I gone off to...
*****

Posts: 6,754
Likes Given: 17,341
Likes Received: 7,449 in 3,871 posts
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 60
Post: #3
RE: Figuring Out SS TC
I didn't determine that cotton will burn at 425F. That's what I read somewhere. I have absolutely no idea what temperature cotton burns at, because I have absolutely no idea what temperature my atty is at when my cotton starts to burn. 

My coils are sometimes fully wicked and juiced when I perform my tests. Other times, I try them with dry cotton. Because part of the appeal of TC is not getting dry hits, or at least limiting how bad they get. So having dry cotton and seeing if it will burn when I've got it set to a temperature lower than the temperature at which cotton burns is kind of a big deal. I'm not scorching wet cotton at low temperature settings. I'm scorching dry cotton at low or high temperatures, and sometimes wet cotton at high temperatures. TC should prevent the cotton from burning if I dry fire, as long as the temperature setting is lower than the point at which cotton burns. 

I'll try a simple coil with a single wire and see what happens. I was able to get the mod to at least try to read temperature for a few minutes, I have absolutely no idea what I did though or why it worked for a bit. I say "worked" because it actually showed a number where the temperature is supposed to be, but it definitely wasn't the correct temperature since it jumped from -50F to 800F and everywhere in between. But at least I'm getting closer. 

I posted this same question on the eScribe forums, and someone told me that since SS has a lower TCR than nickel or titanium, it needs to be higher resistance and so I should try to build around 0.4-0.6 ohms. Unfortunately my wire is too thick to do that without having crazy huge coils that won't fit in my atty (like, 20 wraps or more), so I'll have to get some new wire to try it. Fortunately this SS is great in power mode, so no reason I can't just use it all anyway even if I can't get it to work with TC mode. 

By the way Eggza, I'm sorry if I sounded a bit sharp in my reply to your questions. It's not directed toward you, I'm just a bit miffed at the whole situation since it's so frustrating. Thanks for your help, mate. 
03-08-2016 06:21 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Eggza Offline
Member
***

Posts: 243
Likes Given: 1,117
Likes Received: 193 in 113 posts
Joined: Jul 2016
Reputation: 3
Post: #4
RE: Figuring Out SS TC
(03-08-2016 06:21 AM)Michael Wrote:  I try them with dry cotton. Because part of the appeal of TC is not getting dry hits, or at least limiting how bad they get. So having dry cotton and seeing if it will burn when I've got it set to a temperature lower than the temperature at which cotton burns is kind of a big deal.
At what temperature can you vape dry cotton at before you begin to feel that you're getting dry hits?

(03-08-2016 06:21 AM)Michael Wrote:  TC should prevent the cotton from burning if I dry fire, as long as the temperature setting is lower than the point at which cotton burns.
Like Chuck hinted at recently, maybe the 510 connection will eventually evolve into something more advanced that will support temperature probes and make your statement absolutely true. For now, isn't it enough to detect when a wick goes dry mid-toke? Or to make adjustments allowing for fast/slow draws or changes to air-flow? You're probably so used to wattage mode that you know by instinct what the corresponding power change should be if you change your air-flow from 1/4 to 3/4 or try a new coil build or whatever, but I find it rather useful to be able to leave the device at a particular temp while I tinker.

(03-08-2016 06:21 AM)Michael Wrote:  it definitely wasn't the correct temperature since it jumped from -50F to 800F and everywhere in between.
Any chance you have a poor connection at the 510 or a bit of juice or other gunk on the contacts?

Quote:By the way Eggza, I'm sorry if I sounded a bit sharp in my reply to your questions. It's not directed toward you, I'm just a bit miffed at the whole situation since it's so frustrating. Thanks for your help, mate. 
You're fine. I'll probably join the chorus with my new mod, soon.
03-08-2016 07:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Chuck-Drl Offline
Resident Wiseguy
*****
FreeCycle

Posts: 4,115
Likes Given: 4,483
Likes Received: 6,588 in 2,967 posts
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 150
Post: #5
RE: Figuring Out SS TC
i tried ss in the Ni200 setting on my D2 , though it heated well and vaped nice it did not register low juice

Why be normal when wierd is so much fun.
03-08-2016 07:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Eggza Offline
Member
***

Posts: 243
Likes Given: 1,117
Likes Received: 193 in 113 posts
Joined: Jul 2016
Reputation: 3
Post: #6
RE: Figuring Out SS TC
If you wanna' give it another try sometime, you're welcome to give my settings a shot. They are working great for me, although I haven't been testing for dry hits the way you are. The TC profiles are all using the new temperature dominant display mode, which I prefer. If you're using fat wires, you'll probably have to jack the boost up quite a bit to keep the mod from dropping out of TC mode.

Thus far, I've tested the profiles with a .5Ω SS BVC cartridge in the iSub V, dual coil builds using nine wraps of 28g*2/40g clapton 316L at ~.29Ω, nine wraps of 26g 316L at ~.35Ω, and five or six wraps of 28g*2/24g at ~.17Ω (not positive on this one and have already torn it down). I got really, really good vapes out of each, although I probably would've also enjoyed them in power mode. By far, my favorite setup is the 28*2/40; even the smaller decks I have can accommodate nine spaced wraps. No hotspots or difficulty balancing coils and the wicks are still pristine by the time I need to dry fire the coils after vaping really, really gunky NET (naturally extracted) juices. I believe the profiles have the material data embedded and that loading the profile will upload the material. If I'm wrong and you want me to export the curves, let me know.

The first profile is the TCR curve from Steam-Engine. The third profile uses the a milder TCR curve from this post. I'm guessing they were borrowed from a slightly different stainless composition but work well for more massive wires at higher power. Profile four is using the commonly quoted value of 0.00092 for the TCR instead of a slightly more detailed curve. Profile eight was downloaded from the DJLS Vapes website, although I did change the boost from 150W to 100W (if I recall correctly). He also has his own Panzer .ecig available for download on the same website. He's got a Youtube video of your device that may be worth checking out, as well, including all the TC tests.

Cheers,
Egg


Attached File(s)
.zip  my settings.zip (Size: 9.67 KB / Downloads: 1)
04-08-2016 02:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Eggza's post:
Michael (08-04-2016)
peter-k Offline
Senior Member
****

Posts: 338
Likes Given: 47
Likes Received: 271 in 170 posts
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 5
Post: #7
RE: Figuring Out SS TC
Don't use Clapton, dual and any other special coil to start with TC. Use a simple spaced coil. TC can manage dual but they have to be really 100 % identical.

If you have a Joyetech TC device use that with SS, they work well.
04-08-2016 02:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like peter-k's post:
Fatboy (08-04-2016), Michael (08-04-2016)
Post Reply