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Box mods
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Michael Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Box mods
Those are very valid points, phlash. A lot of younger vapers are all about cloud chasing, pushing their mods to the extreme to try to blow bigger clouds than their buddies. I'll admit, at times I'm one of them, I enjoy blowing big clouds and seeing how much power I can push through my builds (I'm 23 years old and stupid). I think there should be a mandatory test on battery safety for anyone buying a high-power mod or mech mod. Just make people answer a few questions to determine if they know how to be safe with their mods. Running 200W on two 18650s is not safe, regardless of the batteries, since to get 200W you'd be pushing any pair of 18650s beyond their capabilities, even on the best ones with the highest amp limits. I've used the car speedometer analogy before, and it's fitting: like you said, just because it reads 180 doesn't mean it's advisable to go that fast. If you want to use insane power, get a mod that's good for it, like a 3-cell DNA200 or RX200. There are mods that are okay at that high power, but two 18650s aren't. 

Seems you've got a good head on your shoulders. Pity that many folks don't. 
19-04-2016 05:06 PM
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phlash Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Box mods
(19-04-2016 05:06 PM)Michael Wrote:  Those are very valid points, phlash. A lot of younger vapers are all about cloud chasing, pushing their mods to the extreme to try to blow bigger clouds than their buddies. I'll admit, at times I'm one of them, I enjoy blowing big clouds and seeing how much power I can push through my builds (I'm 23 years old and stupid). I think there should be a mandatory test on battery safety for anyone buying a high-power mod or mech mod. Just make people answer a few questions to determine if they know how to be safe with their mods. Running 200W on two 18650s is not safe, regardless of the batteries, since to get 200W you'd be pushing any pair of 18650s beyond their capabilities, even on the best ones with the highest amp limits. I've used the car speedometer analogy before, and it's fitting: like you said, just because it reads 180 doesn't mean it's advisable to go that fast. If you want to use insane power, get a mod that's good for it, like a 3-cell DNA200 or RX200. There are mods that are okay at that high power, but two 18650s aren't. 

Seems you've got a good head on your shoulders. Pity that many folks don't. 
Thanks so much for that, at least somebody gets it. And don't feel bad, I'm 56 and STILL stupid. But I learn new stuff all the time, mostly from the good people on sites like this, and try to pass it along. But the youngest of the young generation just don't want to listen. You have to show them. That's why we keep that old melted rx200, which got that way when a kid tried to push 200 watts with some cheapo pawn shop batteries. And he even tried to get his money back.

    We only handle AWT brand batteries, they come with an authenticity sticker, and are the imr type. I don't  remember what that stands  for, but I do know it's a more stable chemical compound. All three shops in my area sell  AWT and nothing else. I don't understand why they aren't more popular, they last longer than anything else I've tried. Maybe cause they are pretty pricey, seventeen bucks retail. 


   That mandatory test sounds like a good idea, I may try it.Good
19-04-2016 08:23 PM
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Michael (04-19-2016)
Don Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Box mods
AWT cells are rewraps. Fortunately rewraps of decent cells. The 2000mAh cells are rewrapped Sony VTC4 cells which are (arguably) actual 30A cells. The 2500mAh ones are rewrapped Samsung 25R cells which are 20-22A cells.

IMR cells are the only ones really suited to vaping. They are lithium-manganese cells which have a lower internal impedance as opposed to ICR, lithium-cobalt cells which tend to have higher capacity but lower current (And therefore power) delivery.

Anything that wants more than 50W per cell is pushing your luck even with the best cells out there. There are loads of mods out there prepared to draw 70+W per cell. There is NO 18650 on the market that can actually handle that.

TVF tested battery info to be found here

[Image: 24291313393_16615b20b2_m.jpg]
19-04-2016 08:31 PM
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BOB (04-19-2016), gentlydoingit* (04-19-2016), Michael (04-19-2016), paulS (04-19-2016)
paulS Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Box mods
I keep 'young people' don't understand. I have been around vaping for awhile and honestly I find older vapers are often the most stupid. Be aware I'm 65 years old so I'm not dissing the old generation. But I have found that older guys and gals have problems following advicxe and directions, lol. I can't count the number of older vapers who come into shops with damaged equipment from mishandling. So the age of the vaper has nothing to do with the habits of the vaper. It is how they have been shown to vape and how well they comprehend instructions. I find a lot of the younger guys quite helpful around here. They know their batteries. They know which coils vape best. They have repaired mods for me ... when I say young I refer to anyone under 35 years mind you. I think the 40+ vapers as the old guys.

But you see this type of generalization does not work. I think Don is very knowleable and I think I can hold my own as well. So age grouping tendencies is not going to be very scientific when it comes to vaping. It is your attitude that copunts. You r openness to see that yopu can still learn new tricks.

I mentioned way back in my first post that dual batteries do not support the mods being released. Don is on point. Thankfully there are a lot of regulated mods that will NOT let you draw above 25 amps. Strangely, people complain about these mods. People of all ages. My Cuboid will not allow me to draw more than 25 amps. I can put a 1.6 ohm coil in my atty ( I am vaping one now) but I cannot go as high as I like. It will shut me off. The Vaporflask stout will also shut you off. Those are the two regulated mods that I use. When I vape my mechs I work out how many amps I'm drawing on my build before vaping.

I just bought the Boxer 160w TC. I will use it because again - it shuts you off when you try to be stupid. Or are careless. It monitors the temp better than most mods I own and simply will not fire.

Now I do not mean to sound pedantic here. I apologize if I do. But safety has to be the number one concern of vape shops and vapers - we don't want to give the authorities any more ammunition. They are already after us because 'big money' is pushing. Those damn Chinese vendors
pulling in millions of dollars should be spending some on lobbying for our cause instead of buying bigger cars, lol.

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19-04-2016 10:09 PM
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Michael Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Box mods
(19-04-2016 08:31 PM)Don Wrote:  Anything that wants more than 50W per cell is pushing your luck even with the best cells out there. There are loads of mods out there prepared to draw 70+W per cell. There is NO 18650 on the market that can actually handle that.

I just did the math, correct me if I'm wrong but 4.2V at 70W is only 16.67A and 0.25 ohms. That's easily within the limit of a VTC4, 25R, HE2, or HG2. Dropping the resistance to 0.2 ohms makes it 18.71A, 3.74V. Still within range for a 20A cell. Are you saying that 70W is too much for one cell based on voltage sag and the fact that no circuit is 100% efficient, or an I missing something? 

By the way, just because it's hard to tell in text, let me be clear that I'm 100% just asking, not meaning this sassy at all. I just thought the main concern was amps, saying for certain that a wattage is too much seems counterintuitive since the real limit is amps if I understand correctly. 
19-04-2016 11:56 PM
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phlash Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Box mods
(19-04-2016 08:31 PM)Don Wrote:  AWT cells are rewraps. Fortunately rewraps of decent cells. The 2000mAh cells are rewrapped Sony VTC4 cells which are (arguably) actual 30A cells. The 2500mAh ones are rewrapped Samsung 25R cells which are 20-22A cells.

IMR cells are the only ones really suited to vaping. They are lithium-manganese cells which have a lower internal impedance as opposed to ICR, lithium-cobalt cells which tend to have higher capacity but lower current (And therefore power) delivery.

Anything that wants more than 50W per cell is pushing your luck even with the best cells out there. There are loads of mods out there prepared to draw 70+W per cell. There is NO 18650 on the market that can actually handle that.
Yeah I've heard that about practically every make of battery there is, at one time or another. We get ours direct from the Aweite factory in china, where most batteries are made, and the authenticity sticker always matches. I have had other makes of batteries in the past, and don't remember getting that. I think the chinese factories just pass them back and forth and name them what they feel like.
20-04-2016 01:57 AM
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Techie87 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Box mods
I use my sigeli fuchai 200w with a arctic v8 tank (v4 coil) around 95-105w and double vision rda around 90w. Battery time runs 4-6 hours fairly consistent use...would be interested in finding a mod that would let me do the same with 6-10 hour life...would the DNA rx200 likely accomplish that?
20-04-2016 03:02 AM
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phlash Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Box mods
(19-04-2016 10:09 PM)paulS Wrote:  I keep 'young people' don't understand. I have been around vaping for awhile and honestly I find older vapers are often the most stupid. Be aware I'm 65 years old so I'm not dissing the old generation. But I have found that older guys and gals have problems following advicxe and directions, lol. I can't count the number of older vapers who come into shops with damaged equipment from mishandling. So the age of the vaper has nothing to do with the habits of the vaper. It is how they have been shown to vape and how well they comprehend instructions. I find a lot of the younger guys quite helpful around here. They know their batteries. They know which coils vape best. They have repaired mods for me ... when I say young I refer to anyone under 35 years mind you. I think the 40+ vapers as the old guys.

But you see this type of generalization does not work. I think Don is very knowleable and I think I can hold my own as well. So age grouping tendencies is not going to be very scientific when it comes to vaping. It is your attitude that copunts. You r openness to see that yopu can still learn new tricks.

I mentioned way back in my first post that dual batteries do not support the mods being released. Don is on point. Thankfully there are a lot of regulated mods that will NOT let you draw above 25 amps. Strangely, people complain about these mods. People of all ages. My Cuboid will not allow me to draw more than 25 amps. I can put a 1.6 ohm coil in my atty ( I am vaping one now) but I cannot go as high as I like. It will shut me off. The Vaporflask stout will also shut you off. Those are the two regulated mods that I use. When I vape my mechs I work out how many amps I'm drawing on my build before vaping.

I just bought the Boxer 160w TC. I will use it because again - it shuts you off when you try to be stupid. Or are careless. It monitors the temp better than most mods I own and simply will not fire.

Now I do not mean to sound pedantic here. I apologize if I do. But safety has to be the number one concern of vape shops and vapers - we don't want to give the authorities any more ammunition. They are already after us because 'big money' is pushing. Those damn Chinese vendors
pulling in millions of dollars should be spending some on lobbying for our cause instead of buying bigger cars, lol.
I totally get what you are saying and yes, the older crew seem to have problems with memory of what to do, or not do. I'm 56 and one of them. I take special care with these guys because they have an excuse to be like that. Most of them have already been to hell and back, but they at least try to listen and learn. I even write stuff down and give them my phone number. And the 25 to fifty bunch are the best, alot of the time I learn stuff from them. It's the teenagers that are the hardest to deal with. When I try to tell a first time teenage buyer about safety, they roll their eyes or cut me off with"I know what I'm doing, my dad has one", or something like that. A week or so later they are back with a dead box with wires hanging out,wanting a refund. It happens alot.

  A few months ago, I stopped by a competitors shop, looking for some ss316 in a gauge we didn't have. The kid working there tried to sell me nichrome for temp wire, and even tried to convince me that there was a nichrome setting on my snow wolf. I didn't even bother to correct him, I just left.

  
   It's not about vaping styles, or willingness to learn. I think it's more about willingness to be taught by some old fart, that teenagers seem to hate. I can't imagine why.

   As the saying goes, youth is wasted on the young.
20-04-2016 03:59 AM
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phlash Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Box mods
(20-04-2016 03:02 AM)Techie87 Wrote:  I use my sigeli fuchai 200w with a arctic v8 tank (v4 coil) around 95-105w and double vision rda around 90w. Battery time runs 4-6 hours fairly consistent use...would be interested in finding a mod that would let me do the same with 6-10 hour life...would the DNA rx200 likely accomplish that?
  Absolutely. But you will need at least three good matching batteries and a good 4-bay charger, like a nitecore d4 or an xtar vc-4. And a DNA200 ain't cheap, either. Around 150 online or 200 in a shop. And it's best to have an extra set of batteries, so you can vape one set while the other charges.
20-04-2016 05:04 AM
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Don Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Box mods
(19-04-2016 11:56 PM)Michael Wrote:  
(19-04-2016 08:31 PM)Don Wrote:  Anything that wants more than 50W per cell is pushing your luck even with the best cells out there. There are loads of mods out there prepared to draw 70+W per cell. There is NO 18650 on the market that can actually handle that.

I just did the math, correct me if I'm wrong but 4.2V at 70W is only 16.67A and 0.25 ohms. That's easily within the limit of a VTC4, 25R, HE2, or HG2. Dropping the resistance to 0.2 ohms makes it 18.71A, 3.74V. Still within range for a 20A cell. Are you saying that 70W is too much for one cell based on voltage sag and the fact that no circuit is 100% efficient, or an I missing something? 

By the way, just because it's hard to tell in text, let me be clear that I'm 100% just asking, not meaning this sassy at all. I just thought the main concern was amps, saying for certain that a wattage is too much seems counterintuitive since the real limit is amps if I understand correctly. 

What shook me was the 50W mod that had a maximum draw of 23A.

The power conversion circuits used in mods are not terribly efficient and the voltage under load of lithium cells sags some so you need to pul more current so the voltage sags some more....

TVF tested battery info to be found here

[Image: 24291313393_16615b20b2_m.jpg]
20-04-2016 05:51 AM
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