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Another nail in the coffin
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Robjenko Offline
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Post: #1
Another nail in the coffin
Just come across this article 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...laims.html

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04-02-2015 11:43 PM
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Michael Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Another nail in the coffin
First of all, if I can't find references, I don't trust it. Making claims like "In 2013, more than 250,000 American teenagers who had never smoked a cigarette reported using e-cigarettes" is what's called an appeal to one's ethos, or morality and feelings, and they use things like that to make it sound like e-cigs are the devil, killing kids and babies. If that's true, then yeah there's a problem there, I think it's safe to say that most vapers don't want teens using e-cigs either, but where is the evidence? That article doesn't cite a single source for that claim. 
On an unrelated note, they don't give any clarification about the parameters of the study. For all we know, they could be using 5 ohm coils at 700W with 50mg juice. Obviously, I don't think they went to that extreme, but how can we know? This reminds me of the study recently (which I posted about here in the forum) in which small traces of formaldehyde were found in e-cig vapor, but only when the ecig was used at unrealistically high wattages that no vaper could actually use, since it would produce massive dry hits. Of course, the media decided that this meant e-cigs are more dangerous than smoking, etc.
And finally, the title itself. The title says "E-cigarettes are NOT a safe alternative to smoking." And yet even in this obviously anti-vaping article, they point out that "Devices generated just 1% of the free radicals found in cigarettes." So if we trust this study and its findings (which I don't, but we'll assume you do) this still means that e-cigs are 100x better than cigarettes. It's not perfect, since there's still that 1% (again, if we trust this study) but that's a hell of a lot less than cigarettes, so this is a much safer alternative.

It seems like this is all we hear about, people finding such-and-such in e-cigs that might be harmful, so they're not any safer than real cigarettes, but doesn't the fact that it's much lower in e-cigs just prove that they are indeed much safer? Personally, I don't buy into any of these studies, since it always ends up coming out that they were rigged in some way. But even if you believe every word of the study, it still proves that e-cigs are much better for you than cigarettes. They might not be 100% safe, but then again neither are "conventional" cessation products like nicotine patches and gum, and there is mounting evidence that e-cigs are far better at getting people to quit smoking, and that they are actually better for you.

Sorry for the long reply, this is just one topic that I simply can't leave alone.
05-02-2015 03:51 AM
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Robjenko Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Another nail in the coffin
I did find reference but cant find it now for the life of me that the guy who did this sturdy has actually received $2million in funding from pharmaceutical companies in the past ?????

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05-02-2015 12:27 PM
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Michael Offline
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RE: Another nail in the coffin
If that's true, then that puts this whole study into perspective. Science is supposed to be about finding the truth, regardless of how it might affect the current economy, political sphere, etc, and yet it seems many "scientists" aren't giving unbiased results. 
05-02-2015 05:12 PM
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Robjenko (02-05-2015)
the orb Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Another nail in the coffin
bad publicity towards vaping definatley works in my close circle of friends i am the only one who vapes,my friends who smoke or who are in the process of going cold turkey on the tobbaco will not believe that vaping is less harmfull than smoking also they believe tobbaco companies are the ones funding the e ciggarette companies to keep us all addicted to nicoteen, it is also interesting when you come to facts and figuers 250 000 american teenagers have admitted to trying e ciggarettes, how many american teenagers tried ciggarettes and tobbaco products that year, it could be said that 250 000 american teenagers who tried e ciggaretts will not go on to using tobbaco products, its all fact and figuers that can be manipulated to suit...                  also is it a well known fact that 101% of all surveys are wrong ?
05-02-2015 09:27 PM
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Robjenko Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Another nail in the coffin
(05-02-2015 09:27 PM)the orb Wrote:  bad publicity towards vaping definatley works in my close circle of friends i am the only one who vapes,my friends who smoke or who are in the process of going cold turkey on the tobbaco will not believe that vaping is less harmfull than smoking also they believe tobbaco companies are the ones funding the e ciggarette companies to keep us all addicted to nicoteen, it is also interesting when you come to facts and figuers 250 000 american teenagers have admitted to trying e ciggarettes, how many american teenagers tried ciggarettes and tobbaco products that year, it could be said that 250 000 american teenagers who tried e ciggaretts will not go on to using tobbaco products, its all fact and figuers that can be manipulated to suit...                  also is it a well known fact that 101% of all surveys are wrong ?

Check out the campaign I've started and ask your friend to as well we all want the truth and this could help get it. Click the image below.

Cheers Rob

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05-02-2015 09:38 PM
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Michael (02-06-2015)
Don Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Another nail in the coffin
Surveys depend, more than anything else, on the questions asked. As are Focus Groups, another hideous innovation of the marketing types.

They're a good way of doing what is nauseatingly known as "evidence-based policy making" to use a particularly loathsome phrase from the last government.

What it invariably turned out to be was "policy based evidence-making".

None of this is new. Just look at how drug addicts are treated and the terrible fear from those who want to control us that somebody, somewhere might just be enjoying something. I had a very enlightening discussion on Monday with a consultant who deals with addicts of all sorts of things. And a vaper.

Look how contentious needle exchanges are, or the row over state provided "shooting galleries" where addicts can safely inject. Both good things but the usual Puritans can't bear them. These are Bad People, they shouldn't get anything at all. And so it goes.

Just look at alcohol services, minimum pricing per unit, blah, blah, blah. Scotland notoriously has problems with alcohol. 

But that's enough ranting for one night.

http://www.preventsuicideapp.com
05-02-2015 09:46 PM
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gords1001 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Another nail in the coffin
I'm not allowed to say exactly what I think about this. The language would give spasmod a coronary Big Grin

But the dirge of spiteful evidence sparse drivel coming out has not gone unnoticed in high places and by influential members of public health. I suspect we might see the tide start to turn in England. And there's a court case coming up in california that has potential to blow the whole sack of crap wide open.
06-02-2015 04:56 PM
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Michael (02-06-2015)
Robjenko Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Another nail in the coffin
(06-02-2015 04:56 PM)gords1001 Wrote:  I'm not allowed to say exactly what I think about this. The language would give spasmod a coronary Big Grin

But the dirge of spiteful evidence sparse drivel coming out has not gone unnoticed in high places and by influential members of public health. I suspect we might see the tide start to turn in England. And there's a court case coming up in california that has potential to blow the whole sack of crap wide open.

No swearing please Lol

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06-02-2015 05:05 PM
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BOB (02-07-2015)
gords1001 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Another nail in the coffin
F*** off Tongue
06-02-2015 09:00 PM
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